View Full Version : AIRSTRIKES SUPER AWESOME DEBATE TOPIC
AiRsTrIkE
24-Nov-09, 16:33
OKAY THIS IS A SUPER AWESOME DEBATE TOPIC AND I'M GONNA START OFF A DEBATE REAL SOON NOW SO SIT DOWN CAUSE THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD. IT'LL BE LIKE THOSE DEBATE THINGS YOU SEE ON TV ONLY WITH LESS ORGANIZATION AND ALL IN TEXT. ALSO, IT WILL BE FOUGHT BETWEEN EVERYONE SO MAYBE IT'LL BE MORE LIKE THOSE TOWN HALL MEETING THINGS YOU SEE ON TV. I THINK THATS BETTER BECAUSE IT MAKES MORE RATIONAL SENSE BUT IT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE IN THE TITLE. OK THIS IS GOOD LETS GET CRACKALACKING!
DURING THESE DAYS OF SUCH EVIL THINGS AS THE INTERNET, THE CELLULAR TELEPHONE, THE MASS MEDIA, THE TWILIGHT, AND ALSO VIDEO GAMES, THE NEW GENERATION IS AS DIFFERENT AS EVER. WE HUMANS HAVE HARNESSED THE MEANS OF TECHNOLOGY TO PERFORM NEARLY EVERY SLIGHTLY DIFFICULT TASK THAT HAS BEEN HELD SACRED BY SOCIETIES IN THE PAST. MERE CONVERSATION HAS BEEN REDUCED TO MINIMALIST TEXT MESSAGES AND THE OCCASIONAL TEN SECOND PHONE CONVERSATION. THE INTERNET GENERATION MAKES VIGOROUS USE OF THESE NEWFANGLED 'ACRONYMS' ALMOST CONSTANTLY. YOUNG CHILDREN ARE BEING RAISED BY VIDEO GAMES OVER THE XBOX LIVE WHILE BEING REWARDED WITH RANK FOR KILLING PEOPLE SO THEY CAN KILL PEOPLE EVEN BETTER. SO I ASK YOU THIS SINGLE QUESTION, MY SWEET AMERICA, IS OUR CULTURE IN A STATE OF RAPID DECLINE‽
AiRsTrIkE
24-Nov-09, 16:39
Fucktard.
No, seriously.
I used to be of the crowd that would often think that our culture was running out of culture, but, as I grew up and became less of an indignant jerk, I found that to be totally wrong.
The big deal about my thinking culture was dead was that the culture I was exposed to just wasn't my Taste. Sure, I might not enjoy N'Sync or MTV or even the antics of some of our half-baked colleagues, but, truth be told, that IS culture.
I was blinding myself by being completely discriminate against things that I personally did not enjoy; the way I saw it, if I didn't enjoy it, it wasn't culture.
There is historical truth to this, too. If you look at most great cultural icons of the ages, they all had their contemporary critics. What is culture and history today was just pop culture in the past; it's being bound to witnessing it in the present that we take it for granite, merely because it's not marble.
AiRsTrIkE
24-Nov-09, 18:32
So you're saying that somehow, some way our youth being exposed to increasingly less real social interaction is somehow going to be better for the future culture? This is really the main point I was trying to make, and didn't really enjoy a complete response to this particular point.
Of course. Do you think that theater of all varieties, from shadow puppets and kabuki to drag queens off Broadway, music, cinema, gaming, literature, and even folklore aren't anything more than "less real social interaction"?
For theater, cinema, and especially literature, you're looking at a predominately single-player experience. Sure, you can watch it with others, and you can interact with each other while watching it or talk about it later, but watching people parading on stage or on screen is completely antipodal to real social interaction, and highly solo in that.
A lot of culture is a personal experience; that's the very idea behind art. Yeah, a lot of styles follow particular movements and techniques, but ultimately the interpretation is up to the individual observer.
While there are many forms of culture that take on social group experiences, and these have been prolific throughout human history as well, it is within our very human nature for our deepest and most cherished culture to be wholly personal and individual, and thusly, non-social.
AiRsTrIkE
24-Nov-09, 18:49
I see your point, and also wholly agree with it. 'Culture' as many define it does require these solitary interactions to occur, in order to justify and spread the ideas of the culture. Culture would simply not exist as we know it without art. Granted, there would be some examples of societies exhibiting cultural tendencies, but they would probably be very primitive in nature.
More to the point, I do not believe these new interactions in the new century fit under the same category you just mentioned. Things like text messaging, instant messaging, and social networking are not even slightly constructive in nature, and I believe they are not merely coexisting with previous forms of communication, but steadily replacing them.
Not to mention the vast availability of these things are all subtracting time the people could be using for the arts, arts you agreed were very important in the structure of a culture.
Sure it's productive. Just cause a bunch of starry-eyed teenagers use text and the internet for inane and unproductive tasks doesn't mean that it is inherently unproductive. They still get used for productive and economical tasks, and I know that I do.
I think a mistake to assume is that, if it's pointless and fun, it's a waste.
Recreation is what you are experiencing, and recreation is as important to culture as having someone there to experience it.
The truth is, recreation could probably be said to be the sole reason that most things exist. As productive and beautiful as Man could be at any point of time, ultimately he needs something to do in his down-time; heck, it could even be the reverse. You could say that all toilsome labour exists solely to continue to promote your recreation.
Now, take any bit of culture we may find in our past. With the exception of culture born of tragedy, most culture has a very recreational leaning: music? theater? pretty buildings to look at? dance?
All that we cherish as our culture, that we deem significant to our peoples and our selves, is meant to be enjoyed over, not toiled under.
This brings me to an interesting reveal. Babbling texts? Unproductive ways of having fun? That IS our culture. As much as it may pain you to admit it, it's our culture because it's what we do as a people that makes us what we are.
You might not like it, but we are but individuals in the greater society, and all ages and all aspects of all cultures had their critics.
Hippies and pirates have just as many rabid detractors as they have thrilled fans, for instance, and they are both a very obvious part of our larger culture.
The Greměns
24-Nov-09, 21:28
How can culture "run out" or "decline?" It can change and people can disagree with the changes but it is impossible to not have culture or a culture.
President Camacho
25-Nov-09, 09:36
How can culture "run out" or "decline?" It can change and people can disagree with the changes but it is impossible to not have culture or a culture.
actually i know plenty of people who just listen to techno, sit at home on their computers, and eat just about the same thing every night. i would say these people have no culture.
but people panicking about social decline has done more damage than social decline ever has.
actually i know plenty of people who just listen to techno, sit at home on their computers, and eat just about the same thing every night. i would say these people have no culture.
But that is, technically, a form of culture. It may not be culture that you can resonate with, but it's a type of culture that the people in question are accustomed to. There isn't just one, single form of culture that exists within a society; it can branch off into smaller segments, with different people experiencing different cultures. Emo kids, indie kids, sporty kids, nerdy kids - these are all, in a sense, different cultural experiences.
I have to agree with Vmag on the matter. Regardless of whether you agree with the road our (American and British) culture is leading down, with what I like to call a 'passive society' - and I'm as guilty as anyone in contributing to this - it's still culture. I point to what Vmag said earlier in the thread:
The big deal about my thinking culture was dead was that the culture I was exposed to just wasn't my Taste. Sure, I might not enjoy N'Sync or MTV or even the antics of some of our half-baked colleagues, but, truth be told, that IS culture.
And that's just it. Culture isn't in decline because you don't like what it represents; it's just not something you particularly approve of.
Is the world experiencing a loss of culture? Of course not. If you are dissatisfied with what is being offered now, the culture of the previous generations is still out there. You don't believe me? Watch Nick at night and listen to your "Classic Rock" station. Or, if you can't manage those simple tasks, go to "Youtube" and search for CCR.
In fact, the whole world, past and present is out there is some form or another for your enjoyment. If you can't find what is pleasing to you, you aren't looking hard enough.
Or, if you can't manage those simple tasks, go to "Youtube" and search for CCR.
? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSyk8aN6Fgs)
President Camacho
26-Nov-09, 23:38
ugh, another teenager who listens to classic southern rock, can't you find some good music from modern day to listen to? why follow a band that hasn't put out a new song in two decades? go out, buy a new record,
the only cultural decline is the cultures of old going stale.
ugh, another teenager who listens to classic southern rock, can't you find some good music from modern day to listen to? why follow a band that hasn't put out a new song in two decades? go out, buy a new record,
Does age really matter? And if so, where is the cut-off mark?
In an attempt to modernize my own tastes, I decided to open up Pandora to everything of every decade, and to take it with an open and non-judgmental ear. I thought I was doing very well at accepting modern tastes, until I realized that my childhood 90s is now almost 20 years ago.
It seems pretty pointless to play catch-up if you honestly don't feel for whoever is putting out new stuff Right Now, and it seems completely foolhardy to refuse Very good music just because it's vintage.
Heck, why study old history? why watch old TV shows and movies? why see the same old girl you've been seeing for the past ten years? why bother with books or even art from more than twenty years ago?
President Camacho
28-Nov-09, 00:12
What is good music from the modern day?
the white stripes (broke up i know), the avalanches (broke up i know), death from above 1979 (broke up i know), ok go has a few songs worth listening to, wolfmother, aesop rock, weezer i guess. also modest mouse
Does age really matter? And if so, where is the cut-off mark?
In an attempt to modernize my own tastes, I decided to open up Pandora to everything of every decade, and to take it with an open and non-judgmental ear. I thought I was doing very well at accepting modern tastes, until I realized that my childhood 90s is now almost 20 years ago.
It seems pretty pointless to play catch-up if you honestly don't feel for whoever is putting out new stuff Right Now, and it seems completely foolhardy to refuse Very good music just because it's vintage.
Heck, why study old history? why watch old TV shows and movies? why see the same old girl you've been seeing for the past ten years? why bother with books or even art from more than twenty years ago?
at the same time why reject anything new? sure there is a place for "the classics" but you will never find anything else you like if you keep to the same old well known routine.
i would rather be in the forefront of new ideas than being dragged kicking and screaming when we finally abandon the old. think of it, in the next generation, nobody will probably know what the song freebird is, the importance of skynard will be lost to memory. they wont write this shit in history books, there will be no celebration, all that you hold dear will cease to exist and it will be replaced by newer streamlined better arts.
theres already 100 years of music lost to history, there is nothing to show that, in todays coroperate feulled society, anything will last. you either ride the wave or drown.
the white stripes (broke up i know), the avalanches (broke up i know), death from above 1979 (broke up i know), ok go has a few songs worth listening to, wolfmother, aesop rock, weezer i guess. also modest mouse
...Those guys are old, man. You might as well be recommending Foo Fighters or The Offspring.
President Camacho
28-Nov-09, 10:04
...Those guys are old, man. You might as well be recommending Foo Fighters or The Offspring.
but they still put out new music. that was my point.
how about the racounteurs?
i consider chickenmouth good too.
The Greměns
28-Nov-09, 21:43
but they still put out new music. that was my point.
how about the racounteurs?
i consider chickenmouth good too.
Who cares when something was made. All that matters is how good it is.
President Camacho
29-Nov-09, 00:25
Who cares when something was made. All that matters is how good it is.
im not debating the quality of the classics, im simply stating that its the same old shit, every time, never new.
also, "I don't care when your mom was made, what matters is that she is oh so good."
MerX Back 91
25-Jan-10, 21:20
I HAS AN ARGUMENT!
I don't care.
can't you find some good music from modern day to listen to?
Nope.
why follow a band that hasn't put out a new song in two decades?
Because it sounds good.
the only cultural decline is the cultures of old going stale.
Okay. I guess we should all stop wearing pants, since that's been going on for a long time, according to your logic. Just because something gets old doesn't mean it loses quality.
New doesn't always mean better. In fact, you'll find that it rarely does - there's a reason why some things are timeless, while others become yesterday's news before the next day even begins.
AiRsTrIkE
26-Jan-10, 20:57
Okay. I guess we should all stop wearing pants, since that's been going on for a long time, according to your logic. Just because something gets old doesn't mean it loses quality.
I like the way you think.
MerX Back 91
26-Jan-10, 21:13
I like the way you think.
As do I.
President Camacho
27-Jan-10, 02:29
Nope.
Because it sounds good.
Okay. I guess we should all stop wearing pants, since that's been going on for a long time, according to your logic. Just because something gets old doesn't mean it loses quality.
im all for the not wearing pants,
according to your distortion of my logic we should all stop listening to music all together. that wasn't my point, i still wear pants, but i wouldn't be caught dead in bell bottoms. also bell bottoms would repel the opposite sex.
New doesn't always mean better. In fact, you'll find that it rarely does - there's a reason why some things are timeless, while others become yesterday's news before the next day even begins.
you know there is a reason we make new things right?
name a timeless piece of music that you listen too.
ugh, another teenager who listens to classic southern rock, can't you find some good music from modern day to listen to? why follow a band that hasn't put out a new song in two decades? go out, buy a new record,
You talkin to me???? then you might benefit from knowing that I am a grandfather.
the only cultural decline is the cultures of old going stale.
More to the point....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkeAzqhlkNk
Soon to be a classic.
Just sayin.
you know there is a reason we make new things right?
Of course there's a reason - that's kind of a given really. But the reasoning doesn't always justify the results.
name a timeless piece of music that you listen too.
- The Beatles
- Pink Floyd
- Led Zeppelin
- The Who
- Jimmy Hendrix
- Eric Clapton
- Rolling Stones
- Oasis
Do you need me to go on?
President Camacho
27-Jan-10, 13:13
Of course there's a reason - that's kind of a given really. But the reasoning doesn't always justify the results.
- The Beatles
- Pink Floyd
- Led Zeppelin
- The Who
- Jimmy Hendrix
- Eric Clapton
- Rolling Stones
- Oasis
Do you need me to go on?
haha. oasis. good one, i thought you were serious for a second.
haha. oasis. good one, i thought you were serious for a second.
You kind of just proved my point there. Ta.
MerX Back 91
27-Jan-10, 17:06
*Atempts to rid self of 'Junior Member' title..*
Oasis? Lol.
I never meant Oasis as a band; I simply meant that some of their songs are, dare I say it, timeless. 'Wonderwall' for example is literally played at every club/bar I go to, and is sung along to joyously by everyone there. Does that make it timeless? Maybe not. But it's at least a recognisable tune even years after release.
It's hard to say whether their songs truly are timeless though, given how recent they are in comparison to the others on my list, so it was probably a bad example to give. But why the laughter which ensued? They are probably one of the most influential bands of the modern era, so if they are met with mockery, what does that say for modern music?
according to your distortion of my logic we should all stop listening to music all together. that wasn't my point, i still wear pants, but i wouldn't be caught dead in bell bottoms. also bell bottoms would repel the opposite sex.
you know there is a reason we make new things right?
I think you're the one that distorted your logic. We still use the B-52. We still use the C-130. Those both were developed in the 50's, they're far older than classic rock. I suppose the USAF should stop using them, since they're old? They're old and thus that makes them useless and of low quality? When something lasts this long, it's high quality, including music, and there's no reason to stop using it/listening to it because it's old. It's the same thing with classical music. Shit's old, but it's of such high quality that a significant number of people listen to it.
MerX Back 91
01-Feb-10, 13:39
I never meant Oasis as a band; I simply meant that some of their songs are, dare I say it, timeless. 'Wonderwall' for example is literally played at every club/bar I go to, and is sung along to joyously by everyone there. Does that make it timeless? Maybe not. But it's at least a recognisable tune even years after release.
It's hard to say whether their songs truly are timeless though, given how recent they are in comparison to the others on my list, so it was probably a bad example to give. But why the laughter which ensued? They are probably one of the most influential bands of the modern era, so if they are met with mockery, what does that say for modern music?
I have never heard of them. I was just LOL'ing at the name. Anyways... I suppose timeless would describe Beetoven, etc.. I mean *some* people actually still listen to and enjoy it.
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.